What Actually Ancient India Was By Abhijit Chavda
If you look at the, of the, there are mentions of the pandas and the CHS and the chairs. Today we are taught to see ourselves as either North Indian or South Indian, and the two gold mix. Instead of spending money on the temple, why can't you spend money on? Of course, the kings were not, uh, that dumb.
So why did they inverse that much money and energy in the temples? Education system that we have today. It is designed to produce clerks and peons, more leaders. It's designed to keep India enslaved, the ancestral homeland of almost all non-African humans. Was India. So our heritage, genetic lineages, all of us, it's about 70,000 years old.
India, Che, Chennai. They have discovered a very ancient submerged city, which seems to be roughly a hundred square kilometers. At least that's how large the site is. It seems to be 10 or 11,000 years old, and it is tentatively identified as. And the people would typically live in reasonable forwarding, but the kings would live in great opulence, temples, universities.
01:23
We don't remember the great universities of India. We had universities across the length and the breadth of the country in south, northeast, west, everywhere. India is the birthplace of the university system. Yeah. Okay. None of them stands today because the TURs destroyed everything. During British times.
01:38
Mm-hmm. The British themselves collected data before they destroyed India's education system. They collected data about India's education system. Mm-hmm. The records are still there with the British, and if you look at the data, the British data with the British collected in temples, ev, children of every cast were given education and boys as well as girls with given education.
01:56
And typically the so-called lower costs and more students than the so-called this can't be real. Oh, uh, there is the city of Du Boca. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There is city of town of Boca in Guar. About 20 or 30 years ago, they dis there somebody, the archeologist, Dr. Said, let me look under the water, what of the coast of Gua? And he found an entire city there.
02:19
Oh my God. So clearly what was written in the MA actually happened. When we talk about the kings and things, I remember one more thing. The earlier form of history I, you know, I studied was the industrial civilization. But, uh, as we were discussing earlier, you mentioned that, uh, history dates back to 11,000 years back.
02:45
Uh, can you shed some light on that part? Like what were the actual condition at that time like? Right. So if we look at, uh, literature. Thank you. So when we talk about sangham literature, we talk about TA literature. So the first, there, there, there have been three sangham periods. Yes. The first sangham, the first uh uh, such event is supposed to have happened in a city called.
03:14
That city no longer exists. And if you date dated back, it's about 11,000 years before today. Okay? And it is said that Lord Shva himself participated in the first . All the gods participated. Now this city, kata, Pru, no longer exists because 11,000 years ago, the coast line of India was very different.
03:33
The ice age was still, to a significant extent, still enforced, and the sea levels, ocean levels were at least a hundred meters below where they're today. So we had more land and the coastal cities of that time are now submerged. Recently near Pucci Pucci, they have discovered a very ancient submerged city, which seems to be roughly a hundred square kilometers at least.
03:57
That's how large the site is. It seems to be 10 or 11,000 years old, and it is tentatively identified as Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. So we have discovered one sub city. There are many more suburb cities on both coasts of India, east coast and west, west coast. So Kata Pru once was above the sea level. Now it is gone, but that's where the first sunham was held approximately 11,000 years before today.
04:24
So that's a very old age. That's a very long time ago. And still the memory is there. But we don't have the literature from that time for whatever reason. Now, when it comes to, you spoke about the Indu civilization, we have to understand one thing. It was not a separate civilization that came and disappeared.
04:42
We are part of it. We are the consideration of that. Exactly. It was actually the Hindu phase of India's history and it was not something that happened far away in the northwest of India. India today, if you look at India, It is all interconnected. Yes, exactly. India has always been interconnected. It has always been one subcontinent.
05:02
If you look at sun literature, there are mentions of the lands north of the Himalayas. If you look at the K of the Al, there are mentions of the pania and the CH and the chairs and the Andras and the ponds. So it's not like everybody was living in isolation. We have always been one civilization. So when we talk about the phase of Indian history, which your history express will call the Indu civilization, it begins the oldest archeological site that is said to be of this IRA is called It's, it's in Arianna.
05:44
It's about nine and a half thousand years old, and there are at least 3000 archeological sites. Along the dry riverbed of the serowa that have never been explored. So it is quite likely if we start exploring them, we will find much older sites. But from the best evidence that we have today, the Serowa in the phase of India's history started around 9,009 and a half thousand years before today.
06:10
And what is remarkable is that we have unbroken cultural continuity. So ladies, even today in India, they wear the thing, right? in the. Even ink we have everywhere in India. Yeah. If you go to wear it in Kerala, it inna they, a thousand years ago, Afghanistan, they used to wear it. So we have this culture, this, this cultural manifestation today, India, if you see statues of ladies from the Sara, You see the same thing.
06:42
Yeah. Right? Yes, exactly. The same culture existed. So we, and that's just one example. We have shk, we have , we have . We have . Yes. We have so many. We we have . Exactly. So we have elements of what is today considered to be Southern Indian culture. We have elements of what is considered to be Northern Indian culture.
07:06
We have yoga. We have statues of people in all the yoga positions that we still practice today. Thank you. It's at least 5,000 years old, minimum. But imagine yoga is such an advanced technology. It's so deep. But it's not seen in a perspective that people, you know, 5,000 years old, they knew this technology that literally changes your entire body.
07:31
You can, you can take control over your entire body through yoga. And people in India 5,000 years back knew about this, but we were never taught the, you know, the, in this valley civilization this way. All we had was like how the dry system was, how the Great Bath was. Of course it was great, but I'm sure that's the least thing they must have, you know, uh, cared about.
07:54
There are that there, there are some extra elements. There are supernatural elements that not even be considered like yoga. It was not emphasized. It was not even, you know, in schools it was, I think yoga is something that should, that should be the part of our country, but it's not, it, uh, people hardly, you know, uh, we have a lot of misconception about yoga, but, uh, why do you think it's, it's happening? Like, uh mm-hmm.
08:19
Why is it happening? It's because, uh, The education system that we have today is essentially the unchanged education system that was instituted in the 19th century by Lord Macaulay. So today they will offer you MBA degrees, they will teach you computer science and God knows what, but the education system is just the same.
08:40
It's designed to tell you what to think and not teach you how to think. It is designed to. Produce clerks and peons, not leaders. It's designed to keep India enslaved. And after 1947, we did not change the system. So do you really think there wasn't any, there wasn't any significant changes.
09:02
Uh, the mear from the system, Mear May, there wasn't any significant changes even after 75 years of independence. Well, they offer modern degrees. Okay, so it looks very different. It looks very modern. It looks 21st century. But the, the way it is done is the same, you see. What does a teacher value on a student today? Marks? No.
09:25
Yeah, max. Obedience. Obedience, of course. OB obedience of course. I'm sorry. You are a good student if you are obedient, but a good, a truly, uh, creative and individualistic student. See, we have to all be part of society, but we have to flower as individuals. Every child has so much curiosity. It is smashed out of them through obedience, so they value students who are obedient.
09:49
They don't value students who think differently or ask questions. Yeah, exactly. If you ask questions, you are bad now. Yes. Yes, exactly. Because I was always a good student all my life. I was, I'll be the top of the class, but I, I was not so obedient. I'll ask a lot of questions. I was never a favor child of any teacher.
10:08
I would always, even since from the, since from I ever remember, I would always have some kind of, You know, conflict with the teacher. There'll always be some, you know, uh, distress between the teacher and me. So even though I was a good student, I was, I'll be good at marks. I was never considered a good, good girl or something like, good girl for an example, or never like that.
10:30
But there'll be other girls who will be, you know, uh, who will be good in marks, but at the same time, they'll be super obedient. But they, those girls will be portrayed as an example for the rest of the people. So Of course, yeah, it's true. Obedience is something, listen, what is the sign of intelligence? Curiosity.
10:51
Curiosity, and how does curiosity manifest itself? Asking questions, but you're not supposed to ask questions, so they're destroying your curiosity and they're turning you into an obedient robot. So you can get marks in the Indian education system by simply memorizing some things you don't understand.
11:07
Exactly, but if you don't understand after the year is over, you will have no memory of what happened and you will have learn nothing. You simply memorize some stuff and you wrote down answer answers in the exam, and then next year you move on and you'll remember nothing. So what was the point of the one year that you wasted nothing? That is the Indian education system.
11:26
That thing has changed. So that's the system that we are all laboring under and they don't want, they want to detach and separate Indian children from their heritage and culture. So we are not taught about yoga. We don't even know what yoga is and where it came from. These statues that we have discovered in the are archeological sites, they are of people in a variety of yoga poses.
11:53
Now, so many yoga poses to develop them would take centuries. Maybe thousands of years. It means that yoga is much older than what you see. We're already seeing the finished product 5,000 years ago. Yes, yes, exactly. So yeah, the development phase would've taken two, 3000 years, but possibly for sure.
12:09
Right? Yeah. So it tells you how ancient yoga is. And it tells you where it came from. It came from the soil of India. The Indian subcontinent we have discovered in the Sara region central region, but who knows, it may have al also have existed in South India, Southern India, or eastern India. But our arch have never bothered to look.
12:29
So we don't know exactly. If you don't look, you will never know anything. That's what's happening. There is so much rich richness and depth in an industry, and we perhaps know 2% of it. 2% perhaps. So we had such an incredibly rich history and today we are taught to see ourselves as either North Indian or South Indian.
12:50
And the two don't mix. Well, that's not, that's that's a lie. We have always been one people. Yes. We have different skin colors. You have people who are fair than me in South India also. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And there are people who are really dark-skinned in North. Look at the Afghan cricket team.
13:06
You will see people who are darker than the average person. Some people are like that. Yeah. So the skin color range and variation has been always part of Indian history because we have so much diversity in India. But culturally and civilizationally, we have always been one. This is something that I keep emphasizing, but people keep on pushing back because they don't, they have been taught something else and they don't want to see the truth.
13:28
They, it, it hurts to see, to, to be given facts that clash with what we've been taught for, for decades as a, as a child. So that's a problem. But yeah, the history of India, the history of the Indian civilization is at least 10,000 years old, and we have explored maybe 2% or 1% of the archeological sites that exist.
13:51
So if we start doing the archeological work properly, imagine what we'll uncover. The genetic history of India is 70,000 years old. The out of Africa migration is the, is what most likely happened, so ar around 80 or 70,000 years before today humans, a bunch of humans, for whatever reason, we don't know why they ca they left, but they escaped out of Africa.
14:15
They made a very difficult journey through the straight of ba Aman, near near Yemen. . They crossed over into the Arabian Peninsula, then they went east towards, because that's where the vegetation was. Then they again crossed the Gulf of Hormuz, which is the Porsche Gulf in the Arabian Sea region, and they came into what is now Peria.
14:37
And again, they followed the greenery vegetation, and then they made their way into the Indian subcontract. The Indian subcontinent was filled with rivers. Rivers, everywhere. Everywhere. There's greenery. Huge geography. It can sustain as many people as you want. So the Indian subcontinent was the original founders zone of the out of Africa migration.
14:58
And out of India you had migrations that even eventually happened in all directions, and that's how the rest of the world was populated. Now, genetically, we know that the oldest non-African. Male and female lineages originated in the Indian Indian subcontinent. There is something called haplogroup F, which is the ancestral genetic lineage of 95% of non-European men, uh, non-African men.
15:27
It originated in, in, in the Indian subcontinent about 16,000 years before today. And the oldest non-African female lineages are haplo groups m and m, which are about 65 or 70,000 years old. They also originated in the Indian subcontinent. So the ancestral homeland of almost all non-African humans was India.
15:53
So our heritage, genetic lineages, all of us, it's about 70,000 years old. We are the oldest non-African, uh, you know, population group. And that's why we have so much diversity in India. Yeah, because it's so old, so obviously it, it's such a large subcontinent. So obviously we'll have lots of diversity and you will have back and forth migrations, but the Indian subcontinent always had an enormous population compared to the rest of the world.
16:20
For instance, when we look at the mature, so-called mature phase of Thes, indu phase of industry, the population of that region was greater than the population. Of maybe the entire rest of the world. And the geographical area was greater than Egypt and Mepo put together. So that tells you an i that gives you an idea of the scale and the size of, uh, Indian, of that part of Indian civilization at the time, and the technology.
16:51
You had cities laid out in grid structures. You don't have that in modern India. In 21st Century India. Mm-hmm. But 5,000, 6,000 years ago, you had cities laid out in grid structures. Yeah. Like you have in the US today. Yeah. And you had drainage systems that were, that were at that time better than what you have in many cities today.
17:10
Exactly. Exactly. You know, recently there were this floods in Pakistan a year or so ago. Yeah, yeah. It was a huge one. Now, you know what came in the news in Mohank? Mm-hmm. Everywhere it was flooded. Mm-hmm. In Mohan, the 5,000 year old draining system drained out the water. It still works. This can't be true.
17:28
Like look at the news. Oh my God. For real. It still works. What our stances in 5,000 years ago. Okay. I kind of underestimated the raining system. So, and you had standardization of weights and measures. So if you go to this enormous geographical region, so many towns and villages and big cities, the weights and measures you find everywhere are the same.
17:55
Complete standardization across an enormous geographical region. Okay? The same sizes of weights, okay? And measures everything everywhere the same, which means it was just one entire civilization. Maybe they were administered through different, uh, rulers or whatever. But the other thing is not a single palace.
18:17
Yeah. So who was ruling, who was administering this entire region? Yeah, actually I had this question. Huh Uh, we have the temple built by . It's so strong. Even today, as if as, as if it was built yesterday. It's so strong. But we don't even have any trace of the palaces or what, where he lived. We don't have anything.
18:37
We have some forts here, but still, forts can't be considered pa, I don't think. Palace, now the fort is a fortified. Military, military iation with soldiers inside. Yeah. But uh, and perhaps some civil perhaps. Yeah. We don't have any trace of palaces. Palace in Karu. Yeah. Do we have palaces elsewhere? So this is a very interesting point you've raised.
19:01
We have palaces in India belonging to the Princely States era. Okay. Which is the Indian puppet kings who were in the British rule. Yeah. They were forced to be in the British, even if they were good. Mm-hmm. But they had no choice. So they, from that period of time, we find palaces, palace, other palaces, broad palace.
19:19
Mm-hmm. Maybe some other places also. But if you go back before 1000 is before today. Mm-hmm. Before 1080. Show me a single palace anywhere in India before the foreign invasions began. You. We had great empires. The Gupta Empire. The Chula Empire. The Chula Empire was one of the largest empires India has ever created.
19:42
Where are the palaces of the Chula King Ra emperors, not kings, emperors, emper, ra Raj, where are the palaces? Temple still stand Very strong. Yeah. Where are the palaces? Is there a possibility that they might have not built the palaces the way they, that is shocking. How can we even fix things? Look, we had great empires beyond, we had the great Gutta empire.
20:09
Huge. Their capital was initially partly partner. Yeah. And then later, most likely Mathura or somewhere else. Where's the palace? We had the Han Empire. Kaka had an enormous empire stretching from the shores of the Caspian Sea to the ALC to present, and much of India. He had to, he had a capital in perk, which is now pe and another, another one in Matura Palace.
20:35
No, the had a four dress called Shva. It was a military installation. It was not a palace. We had the Moria Empire. Huge, hugely awful empire. We have ruins of outside palace. There wasn't there ray of palace? There were no palaces in ancient India. Oh, wow. What this tells us is that kings and queens and rulers lived in reasonably humble abodes.
21:07
They did not live in great luxury. Of course, there will be some standards to maintain because you receive foreign dignitaries ambassadors. You cannot be living in a hut and receiving ambassador, of course. But there were no palaces. One of the great queens of recent times was earlier by , who rebuilt so many of the destroyed temples that the, the Turks had destroyed much of, uh, Kashi was rebuilt by her.
21:33
Her house still exists. It is a very humble, ordinary house. It was not a palace, and she was one of the great queens of the past 500 years and so on. So we have examples of palaces in the past 500 or so years during British Times and during mogul times, eh, during a time period when India was under foreign occupation, when Indian culture was impacted by all these things.
21:59
Then how about the largest town that we have dialysis there now, that is in the past 1000 years, only. Yeah, when India was already under sea from the outsiders. Ah, yes, yes, yes. Okay. So things change around that time, and many of those palaces are also fors. Like Amir, Fort j Fort, you had a certain amount of luxury in that, but typically there were fortresses.
22:20
She photograph fortress. Many historians tried to portray these fortresses and forces palaces. Okay. But yeah, you would have some blood palaces for sure. Mm-hmm. But I am saying, look at the history of India beyond the past 1000 years, and then show me a single palace before temples everywhere. So if temples can stand that long, surely palaces will stand.
22:42
Of course, there are no palaces. So what I'm trying to sell you say, is this, there was something called , the duty of a king or, or a ruler. The duty was very simple. It is what Wesh wrote in the Astra. The highest morality for a king or a ruler is that his country and his people prosper. That is the only job here.
23:05
You have one job. Your country should prosper. Your people should prosper. You should not personally prosper. Your duty is to serve. Leadership is service. It is not ruling by force and gaining wealth for personal gain. I am not saying that all things were good. We had the NDA dynasty, which was defeated by The emperor was very evil.
23:29
He amassed a lot of wealth for himself. Okay? He had a palace apparently, but he was defeated. So we also had some bad kings. I'm not, I'm sure the, the humanity is very diverse in any, because exceptions are not accept. You will have acceptance in any society. You will have maybe 0.2% criminals. You can't do anything about it.
23:49
Yeah. Yeah. And even, even in the best societies, so you will have exceptions. But the rule was that the king was a servant of the people, not an oppressor and a dictator, and somebody who enjoys the people's wealth. The people's wealth was acquired by the king, but through taxation, it was used for public works.
24:08
That's how it was typically. And historically in India. And you gave the example of there is an absence of balances, of course, because that that tells you something. Because, you know, if you go to the, you know, uh, that was their capital. Uh, we have the temple so strong. It's so strong as if it was built yesterday.
24:29
We don't have, uh, you know, we even have, uh, some fourths here, like little parts of we, mines of food, but we don't have a, a palace. Of course. That makes one more question. Like, why did they inverse so much time in the temples? Like why? Excellent, brilliant question. It's so much, uh, energy and so much wealth in the temple.
24:50
Why? Of course, Raja was a great temple, but uh, he could have, of course, he could have at least if he do not want that flexi. He could have at least built a great food or anything like that. Hospital was, of course, that has this question actually when it was rise by one in Jodi car. So she, apparently she visited the temple, the, uh, Tanja Temple.
25:14
She mentions that it was, uh, well maintain. It was super, it's all good, but I see the hospital next to it. It's so poor. Instead of spending money on the temple, why can't you spend money on the. Uh, you know, hospitals and all. Okay. It was a huge controversy just a year back. So that one question arises, of course, the kings were not, uh, that dumb.
25:36
So why did they inverse that much money and energy in the temples? Excellent question. So we have to understand. See, India we, we see India through today's lens, through today's perspective, we have grown up in India, which is suffering from the consequences of. A thousand years of colonization. First by the Turks and then by the British.
25:59
And by the time we were born, India's wealth was drained out. So we have always thought of India as a nation of poverty, of great poverty. If you look at historical India, there is this, there's this, uh, uh, economist called Angus Madison. He published a very highly regarded economic history of the world.
26:23
And if you look at the statistics and data in there, it tells you that India in the past 2000 years for at least 1500 years has been the largest economy, largest economy, at least one third of the entire world's GDP came from India. So India has been historically the most prosperous and rich civilization in the world.
26:45
China was typically number two. So when you had an incredibly prosperous civilization, an entire subc, subcontinent, science civilization, there was incredibly prosper, incredibly prosperous. Then it tells you there was excess wealth. Yeah. And the true nature of a culture or a civilization is seen through how they use their excess wealth.
27:08
If you look at European empires, all the excess wealth was amassed. By the kings or the emperors, and the people would typically live in reasonable poverty, but the kings would live in great opulence. In India, all the excess wealth was typically used for public works, so you had great highways that were considered, which are now attributed to the Turks.
27:33
Yeah, Sheshaw made the gray Grand Trunk Road. No, it was already existing in modern times. The same road. Even did even constructed hybrid was there. Yeah. They would've maintained that. Temples, universities, we don't remember the great universities of India. Of course we had universities across the length and the breadth of the country.
27:53
In south, northeast, west, everywhere. India is the birthplace of the university system. Yeah. Okay. None of them stands today because the TURs destroyed everything and they burned of the libraries. So we had enormous universities. We had we hadas and Mahaas across the length and the breadth of the country. We had hospitals, which were free for the people.
28:12
You do not have to pay me to get treatment in the hospital. All of that has disappeared. We even at hospitals for animals and horses. For real. Two and a half thousand years ago, during thunder groups of time, we had hospitals along the highways for animals. Oh my God. Right? So it's always been that way. And the temples.
28:32
So India had so much excess wealth that great temples were built. These temples were centers of education, not just worship, but also education. And this is something that's spread across Southeast Asia. Also, Indonesia has similar great themselves. Uncle what in Cambodia? Yeah. So many examples. The same system.
28:53
So temples were centers of education and people would donate their excess wealth to the temple so that it'll serve the future generations and keep the education system and other good charitable works going because temples were the centers of culture. Everything good? There is a saying, I think in .
29:12
That do not live in a village where there is no temple. Exactly. That is actually, why does it say very famous saying like, why does it exist the same? Because I think it's translated. Uh, it's, it's very much famous. I, I, i lot of times I heard this from my grandmother, there has to be like, you shouldn't be, you shouldn't be living in a place where there's no temple.
29:32
Actually, the place where we live, uh, there, there wasn't a temple like in the half a kilometer of where we had, so our families, like 10 families came together and built a temple there. See? So we, we built a temple, the guys, which is right next to a house. We built a temple. I grew up with the temple as the temple.
29:49
So imagine that the. In a half kilometer radius, if there is no temple, there was a need to create a temple right there. Yeah. It means that India was a land of temples. Every half kilometer there was a temple of course, right? Everywhere. Every town, every city, every village had temples, every half kilometer there was a temple and kids would get their basic education in temples.
30:10
It was not just a place for worship, it was a place for education. And in big cities, the big temples would be places of much higher education and then you won't have the Maha Mahas. Mm-hmm. And on top of that, you had the great universities. Nobody was ever charged money for admission to any of these places.
30:26
It was always free for boys as well as girls. And so-called these, we have this cast, everybody was given education. But how about the saying that, uh, cast people were discriminated? That's what the claim Well, During British times. Mm-hmm. The British themselves collected data before they destroyed India's education system.
30:45
They collected data about India's education system. Mm-hmm. The records are still there with the British and the writer Al. Mm-hmm. He went through all the British records and he wrote this volume of books called The Beautiful Tree. Okay. It is in the 19th, early, late 19th, early 20th century, somewhere around that time.
31:03
Okay. The data is from the 19th century. Mm-hmm. And if you look at the data, the British data, which the British collected. In Temples, ev, children of every cast were given education, and boys as well as girls were given education. And typically the so-called lower casts had more students than the so-called higher cast.
31:20
This can be real. No, please read the book, the Beautiful Tree by . What is the person It's . So clearly they will be greatly underrepresented in schools because they're only 2% for population. So the the facts. Are what we are not taught. We are taught lies in the education system, okay? Uh, in our today's education system, these are the facts.
31:46
Read the book The Beautiful Tree by, I think it's available online. It was written during British Times. It was written, compiled, using British data. We did not make, invent the data. The British themselves invented the, uh, collected the data. But all allies, we were told, like, of course the education was not, you know, given to everybody.
32:05
It was discriminated against the, uh, poor, you know, the lower cast people, and, uh, People were not allowed inside the temple. And we have, uh, you know, if we go back to like a hundred years back, not even a hundred, like 70, 80 years back, we have leaders here who climb to actually bring the, you know, lower class people into the temple, uh, who were, you know, restricted for mentoring one.
32:29
So, but how does it, like just 200 years back, it was all different. I don't understand. Imagine if you are giving the same education. To children of all the cast. Mm-hmm. And will you then have a different system and standards for temples? Because education happened in temples. Yeah, but it's really unbelievable for me.
32:51
We have been compromise. Yeah, because, and you know this, this thing, the caste system. Now if I make the claim that the caste system is a arbitration invention, people will say I'm a stupid liar. The truth is this, that we always had the system, okay? It was way more complicated than forecast. When? When the Greek ambassador came to India in the court of C, he wrote an account of India.
33:17
Mm-hmm. The Indian Society. He said that the Society of India is divided into seven classes. Okay. Seven, not four. Yeah. Seven classes. Including the, including the farmers and the artisans and the soldiers and so on so forth. Seven different classes, he said. So just two and a half thousand years ago, which is like yesterday for us in India.
33:36
Mm-hmm. If we had seven classes in India and in India we have the Verna JK system. Verna means, what occupation do you have? Mm, yes. Your, your family. Typically occupations run in families across the world. Yeah. In England we have Cerners, like Tacher, like Smiths and so on. Which are occupations. Yeah, which run in families.
33:57
The same happened in India. In any functioning society, we'll have division of labor, not. People will do different things in order to have a functioning society. So we had the VER system in every Verna. You had lots of different Japanese S and all that. Mm-hmm. It's a very complex system. The British could not understand it.
34:16
It was too complicated for the simple British mind. So they tried, they created the system of four casts. Oh, okay. And then they made it compulsory that when you have a birth certificate, you have to mention one of the forecasts. So any government document in India today, it needs to mention your cast. Yeah. And so now it has become a reality.
34:37
Yeah. Now it has become a reality. There are, there are forecasts. Historically it was lots of, and a bunch of foreigners. That's how it was historically. So this four division system was created by the British. I'm not saying there was no, uh, you know, the segmentation of society in any functioning society we have of labor that there will be, even now we have.
35:00
In a, in a corporation? Yeah. Can everybody do the CEO's job? Not at all. Not at all. Of course. In the Army. Can everybody be with the general No, no, no. In India, can everybody do Mr. Moi's work? No. So clearly you're gonna have a division of labor, a proper structured system, but in India it's civil.
35:21
Everybody else, it's everywhere else. It's, it's fine. So we have to think logically. I am not saying there are no problems in India. In the past thousand years of foreign occupation, lots of problems have crept into Indian society. We need to address the solve problems and solve them, and even at the best of times, think about Imperial Rome at the highest peak of its greatness.
35:45
You think there are no problems there? Of course, in society. Yeah. Think of the British Empire. The most evil empire that e ever existed. You think there was no problem there. Read the books of Charles Dickens. Have you read any Charles Dicken book? No. Okay. Oliver Twist is an example. David Copperfield is another example.
36:08
This is from the 19th century. Mm-hmm. When the British Empire who so big the sun never set the richest empire in the world, Charles Dickens books are poverty. Crushing poverty. So in such an incredibly rich and powerful empire, why was there so much widespread crushing poverty? Because it was a horribly egalitarian society.
36:33
Every society has problems, but in India, we are singled out as the evil ones. So we have to understand that we have to see the world in the right context. I'm not saying there were no problems in Indian society, but I think overall we are a far better society historically than all these other people who pass judgment upon us.
36:51
So we have to stop judging us by foreign Stan judging ourselves by foreign standards. Of course, every, the society has problems. We need to identify and fix the problems and keep on doing it, but we, it is, I think, high time that we stop. Blaming ourselves for all the problems others have created for us. So we know there are a lot of classifications based on the cast.
37:12
You know, in India. Whenever the question of, you know, the culture of India rises, Uh, the first thing people point out is the caste cast. Yes, of course. Um, but, uh, any discrimination in ancient India because, uh, the discrimination is now there for sure, because I have seen it in my own eyes, uh, in my belief, how people are being discriminated based on their caste, how my own relatives, uh, do the discrimination.
37:36
I've seen that in my own eyes. So whatever the discrimination part question arises. Uh, I cannot answer that question because, uh, was it like the same thing in the ancient India as well, or is it being, uh, you know, be because of the invasion, the discrimination, you know, brought, uh, what, what do you think? Yeah.
37:56
It's a very interesting question because our historians have never tried to look into this. They typically blame it on us that your culture and your religion is to blame for this. Yeah. That's what they do. Yeah. Another question about whether there was any kind of discrimination in, in srid. Is interesting.
38:11
So let's talk about the South for the Indu Valley, har phase of India's history, was there any discrimination there? So how do we know whether there was discrimination or not? How do we know from the archeological record, let's take the example of Egypt. Mm-hmm. In ancient Egypt, you had big pyramids, which contain, God knows what.
38:32
Then you have this massive royal funeral complexes where you have all these mummified royalty. Yes. And then you have ordinary people who are buried just like that. Skeletons, not mummified. Yeah. So you can see a class difference in there. Of course. Yeah. You can see privilege right there. Yeah. If you look at ancient Europe, you can see certain royal tombs are extremely like mausoleums or ornate, decorated, and then you find skeletons, which are just, you know, buried together in some cases.
39:05
So clearly you can see, especially when it comes to the clergy, The clergy were buried in Le lead caskets, very secure lead. Caskets made of lead, but ordinary people would be buried just without any, any coffin at all. So you can clearly see a disparity in status. So in Egypt, we have an example there of disparity in status in class in Europe also, we have that when we look at the of Indian history, we see that all the dwellings, all the houses, we are moral or less the same.
39:37
All were two or three stored, all had a flush toilet, all had a kitchen, all had a connection to, to a drainage system. All were more or less the same size. All of them had, uh, fireplace. So all of these dwellings, all of these houses, they look very much the same. There is no large house. Another are smaller.
40:01
You don't see that. You see evidence of burials, people who are buried. You also see evidence of cremations pots containing burn boards. You also see that, but you don't see certain burials that are superior and Statu sta status. Status and some that are done improperly or half thirdly. So if you look at the archeological record of the SY phase of industry, several thousand years.
40:26
You fail to decipher any disparity, okay? You don't find it. Now, does it mean there was no discrimination? Maybe it doesn't mean that maybe certain people were more valued. For instance, I'm going going back to different time now. in that entertainers should be highly taxed and kept away from general society because they should not be the role models of society.
40:54
Entertainers should not be the role models. Look at the world now. So, so that is an example of discrimination, but maybe it is good discrimination. I am not we to understand that not all discrimination is bad. There is something called discernment. Will you marry the first guy who proposes you? No, I didn't.
41:17
Not, of course he will not marry the first guy who proposes you. I would not. You will have. Some standards. Yeah, for sure. Is that bad? It's good discrimination. You have the right to discriminate. You have the right to make your own choice and say no to whoever you don't like. Similarly, in society also, there are choices.
41:36
So said tax entertainers highly, heavily and keep them away from general society. Is that evil. I don't necessarily see that as evil. So there could have been such cases which are not visible in the archeological record. When they die, they will be buried the same way. But in life they were treated differently perhaps.
41:57
And in ancient India we always valued knowledge more. Even today we have that the A person who is very well read is regarded with a special kind of uh, yes, respect. Even today we have it, even though it is something which comes back old times. So we have a saying in the, the one who's knowledgeable, he'll be, you know, hailed wherever he goes.
42:22
So it's something that comes back from thousands of years. So we have always valued certain kinds of people more than others, not Does that represent discrimination? If it does represent discrimination, it's not bad. You have something called merit in society, a person who gets 99 marks out of hundred is regarded in a certain way.
42:46
A person who gets 35 marks out of hundred is regarded in a very different way. Yeah. Is that bad discrimination? If that is bad discrimination, why do we have the Olympic games? Why don't we give everybody gold medal chair? Why do we have the football World Cup? The record World Cup? Let's give everybody a business medal.
43:01
End of story. Nature is unequal. Society has always been unequal. It is the nature of society, but where the question arises is the discrimination happens based on one's birth, not one's ity. So that is a different story. There is a very different point, and that's actually a relevant point that you're raising.
43:22
So we see no, no evidence of that. Yeah, exactly. We see no evidence of that in ancient India. Even we have sages who born as a, you know, what we call a whatever. Yes. We have sages if, of course, uh, yes. I, I don't really remember the, we don't even know the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, the what so-called class or cast.
43:46
Did he belong to? We don't quite know. Maybe he was an orphan. Maybe he was the son of a single mother. We don't quite know who the father was. So he was a boy of obscure or unknown origins, and he was chosen by Western and made emperor because he had the qualities. It did not matter where, what his origin was.
44:08
That's the kind of India we once used to have. We may not have that today, but. Yeah, so in the archeological record, we don't see evidence of the discrimination that you rightly pointed out, which may exist in some places today and probably does exist. In ancient India, you see no evidence of that.
44:26
So India has changed a lot in the past 1000 years. In the past 1000 years, Indian society was imposed upon by foreign occupiers who tried their best to destroy our culture in heritage. They tried their best. Look at Northern India. Do you see any great temples standing there? No. Look at the thousands of statues of Buddha in Northern India.
44:45
Most of them, 98%, 91% will not have the head. Why? So they tried to destroy our culture and impose a foreign way of life on us. They have failed mostly, but that has, that has imposed an enormous amount of stress and strain on Indian society. It has distorted Indian society. Indian society, when it was free, had evolved over thousands of years to function in a certain way.
45:12
In the past 2000 years, it was not allowed to to function the same in that way. So it had to cope in some ways. For instance, the foreigners, the Turks, when they came to India, they regarded women as pieces of meat, of course. Okay? And Indian ladies look at all the ancient temple carvings and sculptures. Indian ladies in those days were wore less clothes than what they were today.
45:35
Of course. Yes, yes. And that was a disaster for Indian ladies because they would be, You know what? What would happen to them? So Indian ladies, especially in Northern India, had to start covering up. Yeah, it was out of necessity, but it became a tradition because they had no choice. And now it is part of culture, part of culture.
45:50
That is how culture gets distorted because of external forces. So a lot of bad things have crept into our society in the past 1000 years. We have to understand societal dynamics and how such changes happen and not blame ourselves for all the years that have come into society. Obviously, the, the whatever has gone wrong and whatever bad practices exist today have to be addressed.
46:14
Everybody has to be treated the same. Everybody should be given the same opportunities regardless of gender, regardless of birth, regardless of anything. Then let them go as far as they didn't go. Some will go higher, some will go lower. There is life, but everybody should get the same opportunity. So that's what I believe.
46:31
But ancient India was a very different story. So when we talk about the ancient India, especially about the, you mentioned that 11,000 years back we have, yeah. Uh, but I quite didn't know anything about that. The earliest form of history I know was the Inal civilization. So what are the findings that, uh, you know, about the 11,000 years back history? Right.
46:54
So, uh, recently off the coast of ta mm-hmm. Near, mm-hmm. They discovered an ancient, submerged city. Mm-hmm. Roughly a hundred meters below the sea level. Okay. It's approximately, roughly a hundred square kilometers in area. So it's a large city. And the last time that, uh, that part of the, uh, undersea region was o above the water was about 10 or 11,000 years ago, because we know at what time in, in the past the ocean levels were that low.
47:31
Yeah, so that city, it was built to a large scale about 10 or 11,000 years ago, and a city is not built in three weeks. A city of that size is built over centuries, of course. Okay. And that's in the east, that is possibly Kana In the west, uh uh, there is the city of Duka. Mm-hmm. There is a city of town of Duka in Gujarat.
47:53
And our mythology supposedly has to hold us that Lord Krishna used to rule over the and the warrior of ma. He had visited the city and he witnessed a horrible earthquake in which the city went into the ocean. It disappeared. That is something they have always said is was mythology. But about 20 or 30 years ago, they dis there somebody, the archeologist, Dr.
48:15
Essar Rao, said, let me look under the water, whats of the coast of Waka? And he found an entire city there. Oh my God. So clearly what was written in the marath actually happened now near DCA in the Gulf of Kaba. You know, Gujarat has this neck, it's like a face in the neck of Gujarat. That region is called the Gulf of Kaba.
48:34
There they have discovered an archeological complex, which is not one settlement, but a network of cities, okay. Which is about 120 kilometers, uh, meters below the sea level, which corresponds to about between nine and 12,000 years before today. Mm-hmm. When the sea was last. Below that. So if we start looking, we will find such ancient submerged cities all across.
48:58
Along the coastline of India because India is that old imagine a network of cities. 11 to 12,000 years old was built and it looks exactly the same as the big cities of Araban, but it was 10, 10 to 12,000 years old. So imagine how much time it would've taken to build cities of that scale with, of that sophistication.
49:22
So clearly our civilization is way older than it is believed to be. So we have evidence, we have hard archeological evidence. You know, you may not be able to carbonate anything from that. Mm-hmm. That region because we, we have not bothered to look there. But just the sea level tells you how old it is. Yeah. Because the last time the sea was below that was about 11,000 or 12,000 years before today.
49:44
That itself tells the antiquity when, and it looks the layout of the city's. Looks exactly the same as the cities which are above, above the sea level. So that is the con that is continuity. It's the same civilization which built those entrance cities, uh, and the newer ones. So all of this evidence tells us that our civilization from north to southeast to west is at least 10, 12, maybe more thousand years old.
50:10
We have there, we have evidence. Isn't that interesting and fascinating? Of course, of course. It's like it's, it's a crazy thing. Of course, when you talk about the mythology and the history. Uh, usually many things literatures in India are dis, are just discarded, uh, just as mythology because, you know, uh, we don't consider Ram Krishna as a, you know, historical figures.
50:33
Historical figures. They are just mythological figures for us. Uh, but we even, we havedo, as I was told you in the morning, we have a so many literatures, like a number, you know, countless number of literatures. Which talks about the, you know, lifestyle of the people of sang and all. But the one thing is they'll have little supernatural elements and maybe at the end or something like that.
50:57
Uh, but is it okay to just discard everything in the name of mythology? See, very interesting point that you raised when a story, let's say you have a group of 20 people in a circle. Yeah. And you whisper one sentence into the year of one person and the job of the person is to whisper the same sentence into the year of the next person after 20 rounds.
51:18
When it comes to the original person, the story will have changed. Completely. Completely. Yeah. So that is a human tendency. We tend to, over time, alter, embellish, magnify certain things. And many, many, many people over the generations tell the story over and over again, and each person adds a certain special element, maybe knowingly, maybe annoyingly, and after, after thousands of years, a person who was a great warrior may become a great God.
51:46
Yeah. It doesn't mean the person did not exist, right? So for instance, we always, our historians always regarded the mar bar as mythology until they found card. Now they, what can they do? Found natural city exactly where the so-called mythology said it could be. So it means that there was not mythology.
52:04
It actually happened similarly, once the ASI archeological survey of India examines the Rama region, we will know what the truth is. Let them do their work. I think the process is underway right now. So it's been 75 years since she got in independence, maybe? Roughly? Yeah. Oh, it's okay. Roughly. Roughly, yeah.
52:22
Okay. So. Why is the archeology Department of India is not active as it should be? Because we have the, we are literally the older civilization in the world. We can, we can watch that. We can say that. I guess undoubted. Oh yeah. So shouldn't be the archeological department more involved in finding the, you know, the traces of the past, uh, as it should be, because even we have internal.
52:49
Uh, it kind of stopped the archeological works. We kind of stopped in the middle. We found, uh, evidence of that goes back to 2000 years back or something in the, it would be much older if you look. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it, it was, it was stopped actually. The, the, the excavation was not completed. So why the archeological department is not active as it should be.
53:11
Interesting question. Now I have some theories. I have some facts and let's see where it goes. The archeological survey of India. Was created by our British occupiers. It was not created after independence. It is a British institution. Okay? It was created to examine and study the archeological heritage of India.
53:33
Now, if you go to London, there is something called the London Museum, the British Museum full of India. It is a crime scene full of school and things, all these priceless. Um, um, artifacts, Indian artifacts, statues of gods goddesses, all kinds of things, incredible things. They came from India who brought them.
53:53
The ASI brought them before independence, maybe after independence, I don't know. But before independence, the as i's job was to go and survey all the ancient monuments and whatever was of great value Transported to Brit. And you will find eventually it made its way even to the US and the entire Western world.
54:13
So you have all kinds of museums. The Met Museum in New York, which has stolen artifacts from India, the British Museum is a great example and so many other museums. The a size job was to plunder India, where it was under British Rule after independence. Like every other Instituation in India, nothing changed.
54:31
Now, I'm not saying that after independence, they've been stealing monuments. I'm not saying any of that, but they still had the same colonial attitudes, this feeling of being foreign and superior to the regular Indians. And they always had this tendency to prioritize foreign occupiers monuments like the mogul.
54:50
Yeah. Monuments and all that and disregard Indian rooms, sorry. Indian monuments. There are so many examples in the media in the news. In the past five to seven to 10 years of temples and monuments, there are under ASI protection from which idols are stolen, and then we know where the, I turn up. Yeah. So I am not directly saying that the ASI student titles, but at least they have, they didn't care.
55:15
They have been completely language, yeah. In the in carry out the duties. So the asi, I have said this in the past. Ideally the government should shut down the ASI and create a new organization full of young professionals who actually care about archeology. That's what I believe should happen. If will it happen or not, I don't know.
55:35
If it happens, the credit will go to me. Definitely. I'm. That's actually, uh, a new perspective, to be honest, because, uh, what I thought is ASI is something it was not funded enough. It was not, uh, you know, uh, given enough OP opportunities. Interesting. Maybe there is a lack of funding, even in Isro there is lack of funding.
55:57
Mm-hmm. So maybe to some extent there is a lack of funding which forces them to prioritize what they like. So then they will neglect all the ancient Indian monuments and prioritize, uh, oral Z's tube or whatever. And it's not like all ASI people are hopeless. They have produced some great archeologists, like s ra, like Dr.
56:14
B, one of the greatest archeologists of all time. They have produced really good archeologists also. But I would say like all bureaucratic organizations, maybe 95% of them don't care. Maybe 5% of real gem. That's sad. That's sad. That's how India has always run for the past 75 years because, uh, our history is dependent on us.
56:33
Like it's sad actually. It is. Yeah. And you know, when you have a monument which is exposed to the elements, and if you don't preserve it, if you don't do your work, then after 20, 30, 40, 50 years it'll be eroded and gone. Yes. So it is, certain things are time sensitive. And if there is a, there, our, our history, our heritage is kind of lost, you know? So that's, you see a lot of that happening a lot and it's very unfortunate.
57:01
That's clearly it is. Yeah. So, as a final question, uh, I know that AKA has been found now. Uh, but I don't exactly know. What are the things that, you know, the details of the event? Uh, can you shed some light on that part? Because, uh, of course we, India celeb, India celebrates Krishna. Like if there's any evidence that could prove that he was a historical figure, not just mythological, you know, character.
57:28
Mm-hmm. Uh, that would be great. Now, Definitely it would be great. So I don't remember exactly when the, mm-hmm. The, the submerged city was discovered maybe 1980s or 1990s. Mm-hmm. Somewhere around that time. So the city was discovered, it was discovered to be very large, very well planned like this, uh, the Indu Valley cities.
57:48
They even did some dredging, rough dredging, and they got some pieces of wood and all that. The carbon needed one piece of wood to be more than 8,000 years old. Mm-hmm. Okay, but that maybe is not conclusive evidence, but the depths of the city, Brazil, where it was built, you know, so it's very old, 8,000, 9,000 years old.
58:07
We know that. Uh, so it's there and there is. An island called Bath dka, which is still above the ocean, which is still above the water over there. Also, there are very ancient structures, walls, and possibly the remains of larger buildings and all that. But one second, our archeologists have kind of neglected that.
58:27
So after DKA was discovered, almost no underwater archeology has been done. It's just sitting there, lying there, and nobody's doing anything. Why? They're not doing anything. I don't know. Shouldn't they be doing something? Of course, they should be sending diverse and teams of diverse and solar mapping and all that.
58:46
It can be mapped properly in the, in the space of the next two, three to five years, maybe 10 years. So when we have a proper structure, you know, a proper model of what the city looked like, but nothing is being done. This incredible discovery was made so many years ago. It's a priceless piece of our heritage, ancient heritage.
59:04
And the ASI is doing absolutely nothing there. Recently some foreign teams had come, I don't remember which, which show it was, but they came with some sophisticated equipment, solar equipment, and they did kind of did some investigation there. But Indian archeologists kind of, I'm sure there are some ASI archeologists who are really interested.
59:24
But as an institution overall, the AI seems to be completely not uninterested in the waca, but uh, so that's what we know. In the past 30 years if, if our archeologists had done their job properly, we would know a lot more about it, but unfortunately we don't. But one thing is for sure exactly what was written in the marth happened.
59:46
The city is exactly where it is, said the Marth text said it would be. So it is quite ambiguous to mark that we have forgot such immense glories cities from our past.
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